[Nicola_Red]

She will if she's a member of this site.

I'm as sure as I can be that she has no interest in Chris Moyles, and I know for sure that he hates Moyles.

The only way there would be any evidence would be if he's keeping texts/emails/pics/videos - and given that he's the one with everything to lose, I can't imagine why he would.

[bmstinton93]

She will if she's a member of this site.

I'm as sure as I can be that she has no interest in Chris Moyles, and I know for sure that he hates Moyles.

Tbf there are several members of this site who seem to hate Moyles...

[Nicola_Red]

Haha, I know there are several who don't actually listen anymore, and then there's Dave Bedford and his Comedy Dave hatred, but I dunno about actually hate Moyles...

[dimtimjim]

I hate brussel sprouts.

[bmstinton93]

Not quite sure there is a forum dedicated to brussel sprouts.

[dimtimjim]

S'ok.... they're gone again now for another 11.5 months.

[chrysostom]

Sprouts are lush. People just don't know how to cook them.

[Yudster]

I like sprouts. Baby Yudster loves them now too, he never used to. Mind you he likes all his vegetables. I don't think you have to do anything with them to make them lovely - I keep seeing "recipes" for them, but all I ever do is boil them in salted water until they are done - not overdone, but done (hard sprouts are as bad as soggy ones) - end make sure the gravy is good!

[chrysostom]

I roast them for 25 mins in oil, salt and pepper. Add chestnuts and a bit of chopped bacon.

omnomnomnomnom.

[a-moron]

omnomnomnomnom.

So you give someone a blowjob whilst they cook.

Fair Play. That's one way to prepare yourself for the taste sensation of sprouts.

[dimtimjim]

That's one way to prepare yourself for the taste sensation of sprouts.

[Boboff]

If anyone ever made that noise whilst giving a blowey I am sorry but I would have to ask them to stop it, and possibly a refund as well.

[Yudster]

Ok, something annoyed me today and I need your feedback to know if my annoyance is reasonable, or if my opinion is out of order.

A colleague of mine is vegetarian. She made that choice for herself as an adult. Her two children, whom she obviously feeds and cooks for, are also vegetarian - by HER choice, not theirs, but I fully accept that it is a valid choice for a parent to make in terms of how they are going to feed their children.

However. The thing that annoyed me is that today, she has brought in all the sweeties that her kids were given by friends and family over Christmas, which she refuses to allow her children to have, because they are not suitable for vegetarians.

Now I can quite understand that a vegetarian parent will bring their kids up on a meat free diet. But surely, removing Fruit Pastilles from your child because of their non-vegetarian ingredients is very different from not cooking them a steak? Of course as a parent you make decisions about how you are going to bring your kids up, but there's a difference between enforcing the practice (ie not cooking meat for your kids) and imposing the ideology (ie not letting them have anything at all that you haven't vetted to ensure that it passes YOUR idealogical standards) isn't there?

Or is there?

[MK Chris]

I think there are two ways to look at this: I think it's perfectly reasonable for a person to refuse to cook and prepare animal products if it is against their wishes to do so, but to actually confiscate pre-prepared products is in my opinion going a bit far.

BUT everyone has different opinion on how to bring up their kids and really there's far worse you can do - unless someone is doing something so awful that Social Services should really be getting involved, I don't see it as anyone's right to comment or get upset on how another person is bringing up that child - and I say that as someone who has had quite a few reservations in the past about how someone close to me is bringing up their child (also close to me).

[Yudster]

No - you're right, and I wasn't getting upset about it, this woman is lovely and I have no reason to think she is anything other than a great mum. I just found myself feeling irritated by the situation, and when I tried to analyse WHY I was irritated, it all seemed quite complicated... And just to clarify, I am absolutely not suggesting that vegetarians shouldn't be allowed to feed their kids without preparing meat, that would be ridiculous. Just YOU making the choice not to eat or cook meat, therefore your children not getting meat at home, is different to imposing vegetarianism for your own idealistic reasons on them. I think.

[bmstinton93]

Awaits Nicola to barge in...

[Nicola_Red]

Haha, since you asked

I honestly see no difference between a sweet containing melted-down animal bones (for that is what jelly sweets such as fruit pastilles contain) and a steak. If you're a veggie, you don't eat them, end of story. If you're raising your kids veggie, you can't do half measures - that would send out a ridiculous mixed message. The practice and the ideology go hand in hand - I would hope that a parent would give their kids the chance to decide for themselves when they're old enough, but til then, you can't do one without the other. Yuds, why do you think it made you so cross?...

What annoys me more is I have a friend who is vegetarian because he was brought up to be that way by his parents. Now he complains whenever I mention what I'm having for dinner and its meat but my argument is he's never ever ever eaten so why should he judge me based on his parent's beliefs rather than his own founded one?.

He shouldn't judge you either way. What you choose to eat isn't his concern. He may feel angry that people eat meat, probably more so cos he's been brought up surrounded by that ideology, but you just gotta resist criticising people. It doesn't do veg*nism any favours.

[Yudster]

Yuds, why do you think it made you so cross?...

I don't really know - I just think that to impose your own views on anyone, even your children, to the extent of taking away gifts that people have given them seems extreme. Yes of course, don't give them that stuff yourself - that's you standing behind your principles - but that's just it, they are your principles, and snatching your kids presents out of their hands on Christmas morning and giving them away just seems harsh to me.

[Nicola_Red]

I know what you mean. I'm not sure what the alternative would be though. You can tell people that you're veggie til you're blue in the face and they won't get it - I've been vegan for 13yrs and I have the word VEGAN tattooed on my arm in massive letters, and relatives still give me milk chocolate at Christmas. So I'm guessing the parents will have anticipated for that happening. Maybe they intercepted the presents and took the stuff out before the kids saw it?

[Yudster]

But the kids AREN'T vegetarian, that's my point I think - the parents are, but the kids are merely being brought up by vegetarians. There's a difference, and while I wouldn't go so far as to say that the parents should do otherwise in terms of what THEY give the kids, they could show a little flexibility about what other people give them - if the kids want to have it.

If I had a child of vegetarian parents round for tea, I would prepare a vegetarian meal for them and give them that - but if the child expressed a desire to try a bit of fish, or chicken, I would let them. A parent can choose not to give their child meat, but they can't surely choose that their child be vegetarian if the child clearly wants to try a bit of bacon when it gets the chance!

Being vegetarian surely is more than just not eating meat, it is an idealogical lifestyle choice, and you can't make your child a vegetarian by denying them meat any more than you can force them to be Christian by taking them to church, or to be a Labour voter by immersing them in political doctrine, or anything else that involves personal decisions. You can bring them up in that environment, and provide all the arguments about why they should, but that doesn't make it so.

[Nicola_Red]

Did she say the kids wanted the sweets, though? Being given something as a present and wanting it are not the same thing. I doubt the kids are screaming for fruit pastilles to be honest with you - there are plenty of good veggie sweets around, they're unlikely to be deprived.

I really don't think there is any flexibility - you're raising your kids veggie or you're not. What message do the kids take from "you can eat animal products if they've been bought by someone else"? What if you're a pacifist and someone buys your kid a violent dvd or game - does that make it okay? I just don't get the point in doing it half-heartedly.

Obviously I say these things as a non-parent - I'll never have to make these difficult decisions, thank goodness!

[Bonanzoid]

Vegetarians who try to change you are idiots. So are the ones who don't eat meat because of 'moral complications.' Nothing against those who don't eat meat because they don't like it. My mum's a vegetarian and brought me up, until a certain age, as one but she doesn't mind that I'm not vegetarian now. She never stopped me eating sweets because of it though.

[chrysostom]

This argument would be very different if Vegetarianism was a religion - if it was (for the purposes of the debate) this wouldn't really be an issue, would it?

[Boboff]

Yuds, we wouldn't do it, we are not that committed to the ideal of food policing.

However you got sweets in the office, so no big deal.

You never see a happy vegetarian though, poor kids.......

[Nicola_Red]

Vegetarians who try to change you are idiots. So are the ones who don't eat meat because of 'moral complications.'

Yeah, cheers for that. What's idiotic about not wanting to hurt animals? I'm not asking you to change, but you could show some respect at least.