[Yudster]

Don't bother with the RSPCA, they are completely useless and have no remit to care for wildlife at all, they're too busy making TV adverts and self-promoting with series like Pet Rescue.

I know how you feel Latina, its easy to say - and understand - that stuff like that happens all the time, and two thirds of fledglings die anyway - but its not pleasant to have to witness it, and you always just feel like you want to DO something. If there is a wildlife rescue organisation near you they might be willing to pick it up and look after it until it can be released, but realistically it wouldn't survive anyway, "rescued" wildlife hardly ever does once its been released. Hedgehogs appear to be an exception - they do very well I gather. Anyway. I imagine the best scenario here would be for it to have disappeared overnight, and then you can assume that its fine - so I hope that's what happens.

[Latina]

We moved it to a place out of danger (relatively) and still within hearing range of its parents, who I now think are swooping down from the roof to feed him. According to the RSPB site it's a myth that chicks get rejected if they've been handled by humans as they have a very weak sense of smell.

Anyway, this morning he'd gone back to the bins! I guess it's not that surprising as it's where all the seagulls get their food ( ), so I just left him to it. There are adults swooping round so I'm assuming his parents still know he's there as well. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the binmen notice him when they come later this morning, because if he gets crushed or something that would be a very unnatural and stupid way for him to die.

You're right, I know fledgelings die all the time, but I do wish he hadn't chosen a place I pass several times per day to try and stay alive. I talked to a couple of neighbours before leaving for work. I'm not sure they care that much, and unfortunately the neighbour that did care is out all day like me.

I didn't see any point in calling the RSPB, as I'm sure these scenarios are common and the advice would be "leave things alone".

Oh well. If he does grow up, it'll only be into one of those screaching scavenging b******s I suppose.

[Boboff]

I am sure the Local Cats will soon help you out

[Yudster]

There's not really any such thing as an unnatural way for an urban (or suburban) seagull to die though is there? Wildlife is susceptible to the hazards of its environment - if the environment contains bin lorries/dogs/cats/cars etc, those are the "natural" hazards it has to face. I'm definitely with you though Latina, I know its a fact of life but I wish wildlife would stage its fight for survival somewhere I didn't have to watch......

[Latina]

True. And if something does happen to it, I'd be happy for the cats to help out with the mess asap!

[Johnny 1989]

Out of interest is the Seagull still there or has (s)he "flown off" now (regardless to his fate if (s)he's not there it's best to think (s)he just flew off).

As for the poor little sparrow out in my back garden, considering I had seen on one of those daytime animal programmes at the time (pet rescue?) that Sparrows are an endangered species I thought it best to call the RSPCA, I did & they advised that it was best to leave the little bird alone seeing as the other sparrows were looking after it.

Sadly 15 minutes later, the familiar cackle of a magpie can be heard & the * swooped down, grabbed hold of it, took it several doors away onto someone's extension roof, and pecked the poor little sod to death. The sparrows went mental for about 15 minutes afterwards, a few dive bombing the Magpie as well, although it was of course unphased. Since that day I have hated Magpies and have since see them go for Pigeons & even a Heron! Although in both cases the birds didn't come to any harm thankfully.

Magpie's are noisy bastards anyway, I can tolerate a Seagulls caw & a Crows caw but I hate the noise a Magpie makes, it's a bit like a WWII Gatling gun.

[DevilsDuck]

Herons deserve to be attacked.......they eat ducklings!

[Yudster]

Many animals eat other animals. Its what they DO, its how they live. You can't go ballistic at a magpie for predating on fledglings, its natural, and the idea that the apparent decline in native bird species is somehow a result of magpies eating them is plain wrong. Magpie numbers have decreased too,they have moved from the countryside to suburban areas which is why they seem to have increased, but then so have most other bird species. The decline in numbers is due primarily to declining habitat and possibly (research is currently being carried out by the RSPB supported by other agencies) predation by domestic cats, although the impact of cats initially appears to be less significant than was thought, surprisingly enough.

If herons didn't eat ducklings there would be too many ducks and there wouldn't be enough food for them all so they'd starve and ultimately we'd end up with NO ducks. Predators are crucial in the ecosystem. Most of the large predators in this country have gone - wild cats, bears, wolves etc - people get all het up about roadkill but traffic is just taking the place of a natural predator. Same with wildfowling - most of the wetland nature reserves in Europe would have almost nothing in them in the way of wildlife if they weren't mostly owned and run by shooting clubs. If we didn't have people whose job it is to shoot deer, we'd have no wild deer at all in this country within 5 years.

It can't have been nice to see what happened to your sparrow Johnny, horrible to watch. But "nature" isn't comfortable and fluffy and cuddly and sweet and safe and lovely and nice. Its a jungle out there, always has been and always will be!

[Latina]

That's an unpleasant story Johnny. I know it's nature and all, but I'd probably have slept badly for a few nights after witnessing that!

My Mum complains about the birds of prey near her house as she's obsessed with the welfare of garden birds and their chicks, at which point I always remind her that kestrels and sparrohawks have their own little cute 'n' fluffy babies to feed. That usually shuts her up.

The little seagull is (as far as I know) still around. He was there this morning, and seems to be doing fine. He's survived the bins being taken out, the overnight rain, and the cars driving in and out. I think at this stage I'm most worried about the dog. But we'll see. Hopefully he'll still be there when I get home, and if all goes well he could have his adult feathers and be able to fly off within a week or two.

Magpie haters would love Fife. They're practically extinct here - I've never seen one.

[Yudster]

Yay for the seagull! Keep us posted?

[Latina]

I go home for lunch so I'll report when I get back. I'm also going to buy some raw fish from Tesco in case he's not eating enough. He was crying out a lot this morning.

[Boboff]

Latina, are you a girl or a boy, it's just until now I assumed you were a boy, only girls buy fish for baby Seagulls. Sorry, no offence meant either way.

[Latina]

I'm a girl. You haven't heard Latin American women referred to as Latinas before? And wow, I had no idea I came across as boyish on this board.

All I can say in my defence of the fish-buying is that one of the neighbours bought some the other day to feed the chick, and gave it to me (as they were going to be away), and I saw how much the seagull liked it.

[Yudster]

For all my "let nature take its course" stuff, I would buy it fish too.................

[Johnny 1989]

Many animals eat other animals. Its what they DO, its how they live. You can't go ballistic at a magpie for predating on fledglings, its natural, and the idea that the apparent decline in native bird species is somehow a result of magpies eating them is plain wrong. Magpie numbers have decreased too,they have moved from the countryside to suburban areas which is why they seem to have increased, but then so have most other bird species. The decline in numbers is due primarily to declining habitat and possibly (research is currently being carried out by the RSPB supported by other agencies) predation by domestic cats, although the impact of cats initially appears to be less significant than was thought, surprisingly enough.

If herons didn't eat ducklings there would be too many ducks and there wouldn't be enough food for them all so they'd starve and ultimately we'd end up with NO ducks. Predators are crucial in the ecosystem. Most of the large predators in this country have gone - wild cats, bears, wolves etc - people get all het up about roadkill but traffic is just taking the place of a natural predator. Same with wildfowling - most of the wetland nature reserves in Europe would have almost nothing in them in the way of wildlife if they weren't mostly owned and run by shooting clubs. If we didn't have people whose job it is to shoot deer, we'd have no wild deer at all in this country within 5 years.

It can't have been nice to see what happened to your sparrow Johnny, horrible to watch. But "nature" isn't comfortable and fluffy and cuddly and sweet and safe and lovely and nice. Its a jungle out there, always has been and always will be!

Apologies I wrote that a bit wrong up thread, I know Magpies aren't responsible for the decline in Sparrows, from what I remember they said it was the increased Pigeon population "stealing" all the food that meant the sparrow numbers had been dying out.

Oddly enough where I live Magpie, Blue/Great Tits (not sure which one it is), Foxes, Urban Pigeons, Wood Pigeons, Starlings, Blackbirds & Turtle Doves (I think that's what they are at least) have all increased in population where I live, we've even got 2-4 Robins in my back garden as well. Sparrow numbers have definately dropped from about 10-15 years ago, however again near me they have started to increase quite a bit in the last few years. I think that may be due to the fact that National Express East Anglia haven't cut down the trees, shrubs, etc. for the last few years, along with a few gardens near me that haven't chopped down their old apple trees over the last few years as well.

That's an unpleasant story Johnny. I know it's nature and all, but I'd probably have slept badly for a few nights after witnessing that!

My Mum complains about the birds of prey near her house as she's obsessed with the welfare of garden birds and their chicks, at which point I always remind her that kestrels and sparrohawks have their own little cute 'n' fluffy babies to feed. That usually shuts her up.

The little seagull is (as far as I know) still around. He was there this morning, and seems to be doing fine. He's survived the bins being taken out, the overnight rain, and the cars driving in and out. I think at this stage I'm most worried about the dog. But we'll see. Hopefully he'll still be there when I get home, and if all goes well he could have his adult feathers and be able to fly off within a week or two.

Magpie haters would love Fife. They're practically extinct here - I've never seen one.

I was pissed off for the rest of the day, I think it was the combination of nature being cruel & that the RSPCA just told me to leave the bird alone if he was walking around just fine. The Magpies have since set up home near the church a street away from me so they seem to be staying away from our back gardens now, I think the overgrown plant life has now helped them to hide from the Magpies, Crows, etc.

[Boboff]

Ah Latina as in Latina's. I think it was reasonable comments on the football which made me assume you were male, I am not that good at this sort of thing, Jills sort of Avatar helps old men like me.

We rescued a Cromarant/Gillimot chick when we had a caravan by the Sea, tried to feed it etc, made a few calls, and they said the same, but it back and keep your fingers crossed.

Its nice if we ever go back and see an Adult we tell the children that its "gilly"

Having said that I have no issues killing chickens I have incubated from eggs, absolutely none. I do however feel a bit bad about breaking their necks and letting them "dance" for the children, they love it! ( If that causes offence then it's a joke, if you don't mind and find it funny, then ironically its not a joke!)

[Latina]

Ah Latina as in Latina's. I think it was reasonable comments on the football which made me assume you were male, I am not that good at this sort of thing, Jills sort of Avatar helps old men like me.

We rescued a Cromarant/Gillimot chick when we had a caravan by the Sea, tried to feed it etc, made a few calls, and they said the same, but it back and keep your fingers crossed.

Its nice if we ever go back and see an Adult we tell the children that its "gilly"

Having said that I have no issues killing chickens I have incubated from eggs, absolutely none. I do however feel a bit bad about breaking their necks and letting them "dance" for the children, they love it! ( If that causes offence then it's a joke, if you don't mind and find it funny, then ironically its not a joke!)

I know very little about football so much be winging it well.

My parents have kept chickens and bred them (both in incubators and under broody hens) for nearly 20 years so I've grown up surrounded by them. Although I never minded the fact it was happening, I've never seen my Dad wringing a chicken's neck (or using an air gun, which he now does instead as it's more humane). I've also never eaten any of our own, but he does all the time. I know that makes me a total hypocrite, but I have difficulties with my mind processing it all. As much as I love eating chicken, I've also come to really appreciate the individuality of chickens (they have an much personality as any dog or cat in my experience) so I can only eat ones I've never met.

I'm also completely against battery farms, for the same reason. Any television footage of those nasty places probably affects me more than it does most other people. I want to cry when I see them.

[Yudster]

I've never eaten a chicken I've owned, but that's only because they were kept for eggs, and by the time they stopped laying I reckon they'd have been a bit tough! They do make lovely pets though. I'm gong to have some more soon, for eggs and pet value - I want a Buff Orpington and the kids want a white Silkie.

[Latina]

Out of each new batch (that's not the correct term is it?) of chicks, my parents keep the females for laying, and usually the males are condemned to either the freezer or being sold off to farms who need a cockerel for breeding, once they're a good few months old.

They sometimes keep the best cockerel for breeding with their own hens if there are any of a different line available. They have several different breeds/families. In the past they've mainly been Scots Grey and Scots Dumpy, but my Mum's recently got into Pekins which - it has to be said - are quite adorable (fluffy feet).

[Post edited to cheat the filter ]

[MK Chris]

[Post edited to cheat the filter ]

You know you can turn the swear filter off here?

[Latina]

I had no idea - thanks!

Latest seagull update: The chick was still there, and a bit noisy, at lunchtime so I fed him some raw fish as planned. I now know for certain he has parents that still care about him, as one of them ferociously dive-bombed me whilst I was doing this. Fair enough - it was his/her job, not mine. I had to rinse my hair and change my jacket before returning to work.

[Boboff]

Wicked.

Right again hope this doesn't sound daft, but do they farm in Uraquay or in the UK?

I have only really strated this year breeding seriously, Light Sussex mainly & some Wellsummers. I do the same as your parents with regard to keeping Hens and eating *....

Oh my, that sounds so wrong, although when I seperated them out this year I kept getting an egg in with the *, so I knew something was up.

I have also learnt this year that free range without Electric Fencing = Dead chickens. Shame

[Zoot]

I went to London Zoo today which was all lovely but for the second time now I still haven't been able to see a tapir. It's the only animal I give a toss about though the otters were fun to watch.

Aw, I thought your 3 word post was fantastically random, I'm disappointed there was an actual reason behind it.

[MK Chris]

Do they have red pandas at London Zoo? They're great.

[DevilsDuck]

its my driving test at 11.41! was confident yesterday but then couldn't sleep because everytime i closed my eyes I was practicing manouvers! then this morning Henry the eldest duckling woke up early so Mrs Duck took him down stairs and slipped about 4 steps from the top and may have broken her ankle!


:/