[Steve_ludwig]

Well I just read the gaurdian article which basically slags off Chris for using the word gay to describe a ringtone,and with the intention of meaning rubbish.

Of course its said by the Guardian that this is derogatory to homosexual people.....

I think its hilarious, for a long time the word gay meant happy....now happy people who want to use the word to mean they are happy cannot, because some might think they are homosexual if they use it.

Aside from homosexual people/antics......Gay for me has a few meanings. Your car is gay = your car is rubbish. Halle Barry is gay = Halle Barry is a idiot.

If gay people find the other meanings of the word gay to be offensive, then they should make up their own word.

[cutmasterfrost]

I guess it's what context you put it in
i still think it's a load of crud and you should really ignore it
we're talking Drama Queen Gay people, that wear sailor suits, not normal gay people who have a laugh

[Dr. Nick]

Chris has used the term "a bit gay" to refer to quite a few things. What the Guardian cretin probably hasn't taken into account is that there are two women and a gay man in the studio with him.

If Aled thought he was being out of line, being producer, he'd put him in his place good and proper, as would Rachel.

Everyone knows what Chris is like, and we know he doesn't really mean it. Only the common journalist (Cretinus Maximus) who doesn't actually research his subject, would say such things.

Am composing a letter of complaint to the Guardian's editor.. If we all do this, perhaps the no-talent hack will be forced to publish an apology.

[timb]

If Chris had said "what a gay day it is", I doubt anyone would have complained. It is clear from the context that it was derogatory. I don't think it's a major issue, but I think the BBC head honchos should have just said it was inapropriate and left it at that. Their excuse that kids are all using it hardly stands up. Kids use all sorts of language that wouldn't be appropriate on air.

and by the way

we're talking Drama Queen Gay people, that wear sailor suits, not normal gay people who have a laugh

<cough>bollocks</cough>

[Dr. Nick]

-- Deleted, 'cos it posted the horrifically long rant twice for some reason. Feel free to delete this if you like Admin.. --

[Dr. Nick]

Here's a fun game that Chris Moyles could run as a phone-in quiz on his show today - what makes a ringtone gay? Is it: a) when it's a Kylie track? b) when it's bursting out of a diamante-encrusted pink mobile carried by Dale Winton?; or c) when it's just anything a bit, you know, rubbish?

Nothing in there about what Chris thinks.. It's an honest question. Can't say I heard that show, but nothing in that quote says which Chris would vote for. The fact that he's opening it up to public debate and not "forcing" his own opinion is something not discussed (unsurprisingly).

No one should be surprised that Moyles thought it was OK to tell his breakfast-show audience of 6.3 million that he thought a ringtone was "gay".

It may have been "YMCA" or "From Paris to Berlin".. I dunno.. but it probably was. Chris is usually spot on about things. 6.3 million eh? How many people read the Guardian? Bet it's not as many as 6.3 million...

The self-proclaimed saviour of Radio 1 has, after all, built a name and a lucrative career on robust views bluntly expressed.

Yes, because everyone else lives in fear of second-rate journalistic hacks taking a chunk out of them on slow news days. Chris isn't afraid to find the aspect of someone which really could do with work and picking at it.

He's called Victoria Beckham "a whore" on air,

Don't see a problem there. Besides, if she really took all that much offense, she'd have done something about it. It's good someone's willing to have a pop.

said Nicola Roberts of Girls Aloud had "a face like a slapped arse"

Which is a common usage, encroaching on none of the BBCs highly-rated swear words, to mean looking unhappy. Surely a wordsmith would know that, you'd think?

and asked, in a newspaper interview: "Which woman is going to argue that Jodie Marsh isn't a * slapper?"

Well, the newspaper printed it, so it wasn't subject to the BBC's guidelines. This was just printed to try and cause some 'tension'. I'm sure the hack in question was gutted that it didn't come out during X-Factor. Now that it's over, this comes as a bit of a damp squib. And besides, most women are a bit bitchy when it comes to supermodels anyway, so may even agree with him.

Explaining why he didn't want to get married to his girlfriend, he once announced: "I don't go to strip clubs any more. What more commitment does a woman need?"

Taken massively out of context, and missing all of the bravado boyish banter that goes round it. Pure hackism.

And last month, of course, during his now famous "racist moment", he stunned Halle Berry with the greeting: "Put your hands in the air! I'm a black American guy. A big fat black guy." (Later, after Berry had accused him of having "a racist moment", he said the actor should "just get over yourself".)

I may be wrong, but that quote is massively inaccurate. It also omits the crucial bit where Chris is self-deprecating, explaining that he's just 'bad at doing american accents, and always ends up sounding like a big black american guy'. Again, pure hackism, omitting the whole truth. Nonsense. Halle Berry was just plain wierd, and was weird all the way through the interview.

What is surprising, though, is that the BBC has once again leapt to the defence of their £630,000-a-year, strike-busting star (last May he chose to break a 24-hour strike by BBC staff over job cuts).

WOW, it's "surprising" apparently, that the BBC would defend their #1 star, the biggest puller of radio listeners in a long time, and the host of their flagship show. It's "surprising" that the BBC would defend a member of their staff who has been unjustly attacked by this semi-researched material. No, once again, resorting to shock words to try and keep the (now flagging for material) article interesting.

First the BBC told us that the racist moment wasn't actually a racist moment;

Well, uhh.. *taps head* McFly!!! That's because it wasn't. And if you'd done your job properly, and quoted the whole thing, you'd have seen that it wasn't. This is getting silly now...

now, after a listener complained that Moyles' ringtone comment last July was homophobic, the board of governors has declared that the word gay "was often now used to mean 'lame' or 'rubbish'. This is a widespread current usage ... among young people".

Again, very true. Perhaps taken out of context. The fact that one listener in 7 million chose to complain is interesting. It's possible that Chris went a little too close to the line, but not having heard that show, I can't comment. (Unlike our hack who just plows on regardless, leaving the facts behind).

That verdict yesterday brought condemnation from Stonewall and anti-bullying campaigners.

Verdict? What verdict? It didn't go to court you attention-seeking halfwit. There's been no 'verdict'. and exactly who are these "anti-bullying campaigners" who fight for the rights of camp ring tones? So chris called a ring tone gay, is instantly going to result in the mass murder of young children. Puh-lease. Reminds me of that song "Guns don't kill people Rappers do". Worst sort of knee-jerking. Would you ask a member of an Animal Right Activist group for a balanced opinion on meat-eating? Would you ask the OPEC board for the 'average punters' view of Global Warming? No. Neither would you solicit the 'average gay' opinion from a Gay Pressure group. Hackism strikes again.

Their point was a simple one. While it is true that since the 1990s the word "gay" has become a youth-speak synonym for stupid, second-rate and feeble, that doesn't make it a good thing. In fact, in case Moyles is still unaware of this, the casual use of "gay" - when used other than to accurately describe homosexual men and women - is cruel and derogatory.

Gay does not 'accurately' describe homosexuals, you semiliterate goon. It's meaning is 'happy'. The fact that (apparently Oscar Wilde) referred to homosexuals as 'gay', has caught on, and is used _inaccurately_ to describe them. Yes, most gay men are _gay_, insomuch as they are happy, full of fun, lively, and the soul of the party. But in that case if I said "All everton players are blue, pappa smurf is blue, therefore pappa smurf plays for everton", shows you can't say that. Again, Chris may have been sailing veeery close to the wind here, but if you actually listen to the show, you'll know it's all tongue-in-cheek anyway.

The BBC may argue that Moyles (age 32) is supposed to be down with the teenagers - that's who the show is meant to appeal to.

It appeals more to the millions of men and women getting up for work, and then stuck in their cars in traffic who find that his show excellently allows them to forget the drudgery and annoyance of the world.

But that doesn't necessarily mean that he should behave like one. There are plenty of other words kids commonly use to taunt and denigrate their peers - words that play on disability or racial differences - but can you imagine the BBC's governors rushing to defend those?

He isn't a teenager. He's 24 (his admission , and his use of teenspeak is ironic. We've already ascertained that you don't do your research, nor listen to shows you berate. Perhaps I can persuade you to go look that term up in a dictionary. Something to do with having 10,000 spoons...

For all his boorishness, though, it's still tricky to peg Moyles as aggressively, out-and-out homophobic. His quips are too throwaway and too scattergun to hold the charge. In the easy banter he enjoys with Aled Haydn Jones, the gay producer and sidekick on his show, it is a blurred line where Moyles' familiar, personal teasing tips into something like disdainful gay-baiting.

Wow, this hack actually starts to admit that perhaps some of her earlier comments are perhaps wide of the mark. What is this? Is this perhaps the turning point in the article where (s)he starts pointing out why Moyles is the nation's #1 DJ, a superb radio technician, and all-round entertainer? Is this where she admits her secret liking of the show?...

(Moyles once annoyed the RSPCA by claiming he'd "much rather watch a bit of seal clubbing than Aled dancing in a nightclub dressed in Lycra trousers".)

No. Back to taking throwaway comments out of context and trying to use them as armament. What a waste. Obviously run out of material. Where will it go next? Perhaps the 'journo' will start attacking Moyle's friends now?

Will Young, a regular guest, is clearly a friend of the show and of Moyles - they text off-air.

What is the point of this comment? Completely irrelevant. So the hack is running out of things to say, and is starting to just waffle....

If we give Moyles the benefit of the doubt, we could concede that this latest outburst is perhaps just the unthinking, unmalicious repetition of pub/playground speak.

Well, uhh.. hello? If you actually listen to the show, you no-talent idiot, you'll clearly hear a point in the show where Dave likes to say "Let's get ready to Raaaaambblllleeeeeee........".. at which point the show *IS* a round-the-table pub-type chat. That's the point! I mean, do you actually even LISTEN to the radio? That's the whole joy of the show... It's the ability to 'sit in' on a pub-style discussion, without having to go to one. That's the beauty and the charm of it. So silly things get said in the pub? There's always a girl about to put you right! Chris always keeps saying how much he respects Rachael, their producer. And if he didn't respect Aled, he wouldn't work with him, nor would he allow him to speak freely on his show, and would make him sit mute in the 'box'. Ridiculous. Chris obviously gets on well with the team, so if they're having a laugh, why can't you?

Ben Summerskill, chief executive of Stonewall, agrees that the offence is probably unintended, but adds drily: "He's not especially homophobic because, as Halle Berry pointed out the other day, he's racist as well."

Oh please. Listen to the show, for god's sake. Don't just take your information third-hand from some knee-jerk campaigner who probably got his information from someone else, who probably only half heard it... Let him comment on his own viewpoint, on shows he listened to, himself. This is speculation!

Summerskill says he's unsurprised by the BBC governors' response given the "inexcusable" lack of an openly gay board member.

The fact that there isn't a Llama, an Eskimo, an american indian, a polynesian, a Zulu or a flipping Maharaja doesn't worry him... Boards of directors of large companies work ON MERIT (and money, yes). You can't just 'appoint' a gay member to 'fill the token slot'. These people make big decisions. You're well out of your league here, 'Ben'. Get a grip.

"They are presuming to be down with the kids. It's like a dowager duchess turning up at a dinner party in a rubber mini-skirt and pretending she's hip."

aha.. Great. The first sensible thing. I'm starting to think this Ben guy might have something sensible to say... Perhaps a little OTT, but at least he's getting close. Chris's self-deprecation and self-aggrandizing are endearing for similar reasons.

Moyles and the governors aren't entirely alone at the BBC in their free and easy interpretation of what's "gay". Colin Murray and Edith Bowman's lunchtime show features a "gay dancing" slot, during which they line up a trashy disco track and then encourage excitable listeners to call in and tell them in what crazy location they will be "lasso dancing" along to it. Murray has posted excruciating clips of his own topless studio performance on Radio 1's website.

Oh Gods, now they're picking on poor Colin Murray. Hell, why don't we just dig up John Peel and you can take a pop at him too? For heaven's sake! Colin's Big Gay Disco was absolutely Hilarious. It was self-deprecating in a fun and lively way. Colin's sending-up of his own (I know the jury's still completely out about his sexuality), sexual orientation is superb. He's brought happiness to thousands. It was excruciating, only in the same way as a Pink Panther movie. It was pure comedy, but in an "Oh God, what's he going to do NOW?" kind of way. The send-up of the water bit was genius. Get a grip! Did you listen to the sets they did in Dundee? The students (kids I suppose) loved them both. You've got to have a certain Joi de vivre to work in Radio. Clearly being a frumpy back-room journo-hack wouldn't make it very far in radio. YOU try doing a 3-hour drive-time spot. Did you watch Top Gear? Did you SEE how hard it really is? I bet before the half-time stage, you'll be talking about "bongers" in "car washes" and "the 104 interesting meanings of the word Gay". Idiot.

We can only infer in this context that gay must equal bad, uncool or embarrassing.

No, you Talentless FOOL. The POINT of the Gay Disco was that Gay Men know how to have a FUN TIME when dancing to that sort of music. Where do you get off commenting on things you have no idea about?

In terms of subtlety, it's right up there with Little Britain's Dafydd, although it's presumably intended as a good-natured mockery of some scene that millions of heterosexuals imagine they dimly recall from their sole visit to a gay club in 1991. What must Scott Mills, the station's only gay DJ, make of all this? Sadly he was unavailable for comment yesterday.

Scott Mills probably thinks it's hilarious. He's as much up for a laugh as anyone. I think your little "unavailable for comment" stab was probably because you know full well he'd shoot you down in flames. You probably tried to call at 8:30 in the morning, long before he's due in for his set. Why don't you try to call him again? Why not try later in the day? He'll put you right, with your ridiculous sweeping arguments, rubbish logic, and uninformed generalisations.

What is interesting and depressing about all this is to see how widely and quickly the irritating linguistic change around the word gay has taken hold.

Oh, so now, we've totally run out of stuff to say about Moyles, which (and let's be honest) didn't amount to much, and are having a go at the English Language?! My God, this get's better!

On Urbandictionary.com, always a useful barometer in such matters, definitions have been posted in 105 separate entries. Nearly all of these seek - with varying degrees of articulacy and inventiveness - to explain the new dual homosexual/rubbish meaning of "gay". The consensus could be described as "a slang term for something bad" or "stupid, rubbish, crap, useless, pointless, somewhat annoying", or - more acerbically - "anything negative a teenager couldn't find a better word for fast enough". The significant point is that while many posters note that this usage has an obvious potential to offend, many disregard or overlook the issue completely.

So the Guardian is now using the Web as it's information source? Where next? UFO websites? Elvis Is Alive websites? Perhaps we'll be seeing the lyrics to the Hamster Dance being used in a Critique of modern animal welfare? Let's have a look and see what that pillar of journalistic information says about "Face like a slapped Arse" (one of Chris's commetns above)

Code: Select all1.     face like a slapped arse     
    4 up, 11 down    
   
Face contorted in displeasure or annoyance, resulting in a less than flattering look.

Girl, "Let me know when you're about to *."
Bloke, "Okay."
Girl, "Mmggagt."
Bloke, "Ooops."
Girl, "I thought you were going to tell me when you were cumming?"
Bloke, "Oh cheer up, love. You've got a face like a slapped arse."


Well, that's proven it. With quality writing like that, Urban Dictionary TRULY IS the REAL, PROFESSIONAL dictionary.

Tony Thorne, head of the languages centre at King's College, London, believes that the gay/rubbish linguistic connection is one that only the under-28 age group can make comfortably. "It is true now that it is very widespread among young speakers and it is not used with any homophobic intention at all - and that is difficult for people to get their heads around," he said yesterday. "Even if a person does not mean to be homophobic I do not think there are many gay people who would be able to laugh it off. A lot of people have not caught up with it yet. Many people over 30 are surprised to hear young people use the term in this way."

So now, we have some bloke, commenting on behalf of the gay community. He's a linguist, not a sociologist, psychologist, psychiatrist or Gender Studies expert. He sits at his desk and picks out what WORDS MEAN. And we're supposed to listen to this geek about what Gay Men think? When he says "they" it's clear he isn't Gay himself.

Does any of this matter? Is it so bad if the meaning of "gay" changes, if the intent is not homophobic? Damilola Taylor comes to mind, bullied at school and called "gay boy". Summerskill thinks it matters. "Calling kids 'gay' in playgrounds leaves them damaged for years. If 'gay' is a word of abuse when you are nine how does that impact when you decide at 13 or 14 you are gay? Moyles has access to a hugely impressionable audience of young people. I do think there's an issue about whether a public service broadcaster should be peddling this sort of programme."

Right, we're disappearing off into total La-la land now. The first sentence sums it up. It only matters if you make a big deal out of it. once again, it's clear you don't listen to the show. You're taking one offhand comment from ages ago complained about by ONE MAN, and are twisting it to blame Chris for the murder of a young boy. I think, at this point, you should start saying 'sorry'.

John Quinn, director of children's charity Beatbullying, agrees: "Using the word gay as a derogatory word further propagates the idea that being gay is a bad thing. The BBC has just greenlighted the use of gay as a derogatory word, therefore it has given credence to the idea that being gay is bad.

You what? So... the BBC says "Don't use the word Gay, it could be construed as a derogatory word.. And therefore being Gay is bad. What? Sorry? Where the HECK does THAT logic come from you fool?

This low-level homophobia is not acceptable and is outrageous considering how homophobic bullying destroys lives."

Okay, this is a fair point. And in a general case it's true. However, it doesn't apply here because everything was taken totally out of context. Would Aled work on a show which he thought was derogatory to gay people? Would Scott Mills talk to Chris, and would the two play each others' jingles, or mention each other all the time if they didn't respect each other?

I'm sorry but your whole story is full of ill-researched badly-composited factoids, taken massively out of context, with no redeeming journalistic qualities whatsoever. Chris and the team who work VERY hard to make a fun, fast, and interesting radio show at the hardest time of the day deserve an apology for this hackism.

It could be time for some straight talking at the BBC
· Additional research by Lucy Clouting.

Nice tagline. oOoh, did you think it up yourself, or did you hear it second-hand from some bloke in the pub whose brother told him it?

Seriously though, God Love the people at the Guardian, but everyone involved in this are utter tossers.

[boardboy]

What a complete and utter load of rubbish.

If any of these stupid idots listens to the bloddy show, they'd realise that to accuse Chris of being racist or homophobic is utter rubbish

I was listening to the Halle Berry 'incident' and in no way was it racist, she totally got the wrong end of the stick.

As for the gay comments, well frankly again they are completely out of context. Crap reporting pure and simple

No wonder people have stopped buying this pish. Lets face it they are turning tabloid

[handyandy88]

Theres not a lot i can add to nww02's post. you rather said it all. Now lets hope the Guardian take it on board.

[Dimon Trowel]

Well done.

Again you are speaking on behalf of us all, the people who are actually fans of the show.

Thank you.

[MK Chris]

Ha I was going to say was there really any point in quoting all that, then someone removed the quote...

I might well agree with Dr Nick's post but I can't be arsed to read it.

[Dr. Nick]

A response...

Dear Dr. <Surname Removed >,
Thank you for your e-mail which has been forwarded to the Guardian's
Readers' Editor.
Yours sincerely,
Teresa Goodman
Assistant to the Readers' Editor - Observer

She sounds nice. So, if you want to let the Guardian know just how much you hate their journohackery... Their mail address is:

mailto:reader@observer.co.uk

[fish heads]

I might well agree with Dr Nick's post but I can't be arsed to read it.

Haha, same here. Far too long for me to read on this nice sunny day

[Dr. Nick]

For those with a life, here's the Executive Bullet-Point summary:-

- Guardian = Bunch of Arse
- Moyles = Radio God

[Steve_ludwig]

For those with a life, here's the Executive Bullet-Point summary:-

- Guardian = Bunch of Arse
- Moyles = Radio God

I read the other one, but quoted this one as its shorter!

Yes I agree, its all nonsense and the Guardian tosser obviously is stuck for anything of any real depth.

There has to come a time when people accept that the English langauge is constantly evolving and stop leaping on Chris (and anyone else) everytime stuff is said which frankly is the way alot of people in the real world speak anyway. I'm sick of everything being wrong, illegal or offensive....bloody bollocks.

*cough* guardian are a *cough* bunch of *cough* wankers *cough*

[Mcqueen_]

Mmmm I too wonder what Scott Mills will make of it all. It's not like it was him who statered the whole gay disc thing off and rates song as camp, bi or full on GAY.

It's a load of crap. They'll be saying England flags are racist next....oh..

[Sidders]

What did Moyles actually say?

Using the word 'gay' to describe something as being rubbish is more childish than homophobic IMO.

[Dr. Nick]

What did Moyles actually say?

Using the word 'gay' to describe something as being rubbish is more childish than homophobic IMO.

Spot On! He just said (apparently), that he didn't want a certain ringtone, because it was a bit gay. At no point did he say anything homophobic. The reporter shoots him(her)self successfully in the foot by admitting that using the word "gay" in this way is pretty common these days. *sigh*

[kendra k]

the whole thing is a bit ridiculous, but i also don't think using "gay" as a perjorative is a good thing.

[Dr. Nick]

I'm with you 100% there, Kendra. Unfortunately, winds of change are whipping the foamy crud on the surface of the sea of language, and hurling it full onto the rocks of disapproval, while the gannets of opportunism pick at the carcasses of storm victims. *.



And chris's use was simply ironic and purile. We're not arguing that using the term is bad, we're arguing that the whole silly thing was taking massively out of context, and stirred up. To bring the death of an innocent schoolchild into it is just inexcusable.



* - quite proud of that..

[Sidders]

the whole thing is a bit ridiculous, but i also don't think using "gay" as a perjorative is a good thing.

No, it's not. It's something 10 year olds say when they don't fully understand what it implies.

[handyandy88]

Mmmm I too wonder what Scott Mills will make of it all. It's not like it was him who statered the whole gay disc thing off and rates song as camp, bi or full on GAY.

It's a load of crap. They'll be saying England flags are racist next....oh..

I want a Coffee. question is... Milk or No Milk. Not black or white.

its gone TOO far. Chris Moyles is right to embrace new words. or talk normally as it also known.

[Walter Sobchak]

Hold on, My dear departed grandad used to complain about the misuse of the word GAY, he said it meant being happy and bright, maybe we should revert all language back to its origins, so....


Ug Burp sssh grrr gugg moo!

Surely language develops, and to use the latest development of a particular word surely can't be wrong, can it?

Some other words that might confuse Guardian readers:

Wicked
Cool
Phat (fat)
Sweet

[Dr. Nick]

Not black or white.

We had this "awareness" officer from the local council (years ago) come in and inform us that "lots of bad people are using the word 'black' to mean bad... like "black sheep", and how we were not to use any terms where 'black' meant bad. So of course, us being picky f**ks, started asking "how about black as night?", or Ben whatsisface at the back, ooh you know him.. the one caught fiddling with himself in Geography, he asked "What about black as the ace of spades?"... To which he got a stern telling off.

Stupid, really.

Ug Burp sssh grrr gugg moo!

moo?! That's racist talk against cows that is!

[handyandy88]

Some other words that might confuse Guardian readers:

Wicked
Cool
Phat (fat)
Sweet

How about...


Bling
Sensible
Podcast
Innit
Cool

[Dimon Trowel]

In my opinion this issue has been very much blown out of proportion by the media. It seems to me that it’s much more apparent now in British society to jump on the ‘slate Moyles’ bandwagon than suddenly decide to become homophobic.

Our culture is changing and evolving all the time. This is just over exaggerated rubbish by the papers and the people who complained. Sure homophobia is wrong but solely blaming Moyles and the BBC for perpetrating it is ludicrous.

As barmy as my suggestion of a ‘culture to attack Moyles’ on any ‘insensitive’ remark he makes may sound, it is very rational. There is an ever growing list of Moyles critics now who love nothing more than having a good bitch about the broadcasting legend. If he wasn’t good at being who he is then he wouldn’t get the sort of press he does. It won’t stop papers printing these stories about him though and he shouldn’t stop being the person who he is either.

Moyles is single handily preventing political correctness taking over everything in life and for that alone I respect him.