[Yudster]

I saw the Coca Cola ad last night - it is now officially Christmas.

[Yudster]

I agree, I miss Geoffrey and his millions all under one roof!

[Bonanzoid]

I miss the old Toys'r'us advert. That always used to come on around Christmas and it was miles better than the one they have now.

My mate works for Toys R'Us. Apparently when the big boss man comes to see the store they all have to sing the song to him. I'm still questioning the truth in this assertion, but he swears by it.

[Boboff]

Yes, it's true, Dennis Waterman, wrote it, works there as well, sings it to his boss.

Indeed he wrote the theme tune, sings the theme tune.

Indeed.

[Yudster]

I love you Boboff.

[Wykey]

I miss the old Toys'r'us advert. That always used to come on around Christmas and it was miles better than the one they have now.

My mate works for Toys R'Us. Apparently when the big boss man comes to see the store they all have to sing the song to him. I'm still questioning the truth in this assertion, but he swears by it.

Does he punch them in the face thereafter, or is he some kind of head-case / pervert?

[MK Chris]

The racist woman on the tram / train video that's doing the rounds on Twitter.... that's annoyed me IMMENSELY. She's like a * parody of a racist person.

[Wykey]

I haven't managed to get it to play yet, but she sounds like the reason the press need to have their collective necks wound in to me.

(If my assumptions based on nothing more than hearsay and guesswork are right)

[MK Chris]

You would be correct and the most upsetting thing about the whole thing is that she has a young son sat on her lap while she's yelling "my Britain is * all now" multiple times and blaming it on "black people and Polish." What a horrible, disgusting woman.

[bmstinton93]

Just watched it. Absolutely disgusting.

[SAV1OUR]

She's been arrested.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-15923875

RT @zopalok "According to the Sepp Blatter school of anti-racism the #MyTramExperience woman should have shaken a few hands before she left the tram!"

[R94N]

I saw it when it was first posted on Reddit, then it wasn't too popular because it had only been around a few hours (not trying to sound arrogant, but that was the case) and I had no idea it was going to blow up like it has. I feel sorry for the little kid. Being exposed to viewpoints like that when you're so young can't be good.

[Boboff]

I was there, Actually, well, I knew her when she worked for Bet Fred, and I fathered her child during a drunken Salsa lesson in Catford back in the day. It was a Tuesday.

[Yudster]

I love you Boboff.

[chrysostom]

Anders Breivik has been found to be mentally ill by psychiatrists in Norway.

That isn't annoying me, the furore which will surround this as an 'easy way out' and 'not a real sentence' will.

[Boboff]

Hmm, that rates up there with the Sun's Headline that Joe Mckeldry was gay.

"No Shit Sherlock"

It is hard though for people to rationalise there anger and need for revenge against an understanding of someones mental incapacity.

[chrysostom]

A great point was raised on twitter though - should Fundamentalist Terrorists be found insane by the same criteria?

[Nicola_Red]

What criteria do they use though? Psychological testing, I'm guessing.

[chrysostom]

My girlfriend was doing a lot about this when she was working at the Law Commision and reforming the laws in the UK around it.

It varies - but in this case it's whether the person was in a state of psychosis during the act (which is so extreme that the individual is detached from reality).

I find it difficult to see someone who is intelligent and insane, who has constructed a moral structure in their head (which differs wildly to society's norms) as being the same as someone who is mentally incapable of controlling their actions in the heat of the moment...but i guess fundamentally they're the same thing.

[Wykey]

I think, though I'm going to check now, that the bloke who jumped out of the window with his kids was found to be temporarily insane - without linking the two directly, it came after I heard someone I knew but had lost contact with had killed themselves - and amongst the hoo-hah of people trying to vilify the man, I couldn't help but feel sorry for him and couldn't help but think that while what he'd done was awful, I really don't think he did it because he wanted to.

The chap in Norway, seemed entirely more thoughtful - but then as mentioned, the mental constraints bred in his mind are entirely outwith my contemplation - I guess that could be why some people are deemed evil and some insane.

[Yudster]

I think if you follow the lines of thought Chrysostom was outlining far enough you may get to a point where no one is evil, anyone who commits an atrocity is deemed insane and therefore protected from what we understand as punishment. I think its the perception that this situation is maybe close to being accepted by "the authorities" which makes people distrustful of conclusions such as those reached about Breivik.

[chrysostom]

That's exactly what I was saying Yuds - At it's core, all forms of crime can probably be sourced to a social or biological disorder.

The problem comes when society thinks that being able to understand why an individual has made their choices, leads to thinking that the factors have ceased to make them choices and make them into a forced path through circumstance.

If a person's brain releases more testosterone than another's, and they are overwhelmed by their sexual/aggressive urges and commit the rape of an innocent victim - fully aware that what they are doing is illegal but succumbing to their body's needs, then through this logic it seems as though the person should be treated - not punished. If the logic was executed consistently across the legal system, then that would be fine. If the case of Breivik wasn't so extreme and intricate...if he'd just killed one person with no bomb - then he wouldn't be classed as insane. The fact that he did something so morally shocking, and complicated requires the public to have a justification...almost to negate the myth of 'evil'. This need for justification of a horrific act led the calls for finding out about him as a person. His manifest proved that his conclusions and actions were based on evidence which he interpreted to back up his opinion. The opinion was socially reprehensible, in the extreme - but in my eyes doesn't amount to insanity.

The mad woman on the tram ranting, shows traits of someone who is disconnected from social conventions, personal safety and childcare standards - but she's not deemed insane, although her sudden bout of anger which manifested in public should probably amount to it.

There's far too much inconsistency in the system - and the advances in mental health seem to point to the ethos of someone being compelled to commit an act through biological/social stimulus, meaning they can partially be absolved of taking full responsibility for their actions. Whereas sometimes it's a case of them having to make more of an effort than others to comply to social standards. That's not to take away from those who are 'insane' while committing a crime, but there needs to be a clear definition as to how this can be applied.

/breathe

[Yudster]

I think stating unequivocally that evil is a myth is quite a leap though.

[chrysostom]

But this is the thing - I believe in the idea of evil...not in the biblical 'devil made me' sense. In the sense that people make bad choices that they are aware are bad - but decide to honour their own ideology or lusts knowing it will harm others. It seems that now it seems to be inadmissible as a trait in high profile cases. There may me mitigating factors, but it's the point which they cease to become things which aided the act to happen and start to become things which were the definite cause of the act.

[Bonanzoid]

Despite this intelligent debate, I'm reducing it to a primitive level. The fact the Liverpool match is not televised tonight is bugging me. Grunt!